The Superversive - Quotha

I had some missionaries come to my door the other day. They had me over for an hour yesterday and today. I'm attending church there, Sunday. I have my doubts I will become Mormon...but we seem to agree on *most* everything, they seem kindly enough, and I need somewhere to pray, and people to pray with especially this weekend (I'm currently without a permanent Church home).

We, of course, feel that it's the creeds that went wrong =), else why would there need to be a restoration?

But I also urge caution. The Book of Mormon is the hinge, of course. If the book is true, then you know the our faith is the restored church of Jesus Christ. If it's false, then we are built on sand, as superversive suggests.

The answer won't be found in empiricism. There is not much historical evidence either for or against the Book of Mormon. If Joseph Smith's story seems fantastical, it at least is not outside the bounds of reason for one who believes the Old and the New Testaments. Don't abandon your reason, of course, but don't abandon faith, either. Hebrews 11 in the New Testament, and in the Book of Mormon, Alma 32 and Moroni 7.

I'd also caution that if you're just looking for somewhere to pray, the LDS church is a more difficult path. It's not a restful church. I spend about 10 hours each week serving in some function or another, and spent two years full-time as a missionary myself. In addition to this, you will be considered a little daft by some people. Of course, none of this matters if it's the truth.

But again, as superversive advised, be very careful. While we have much in common with other faiths, there are definite and clear differences. I don't want to hijack these comments to spell those out, but here's a brief summary: a living prophet, additional books of scripture (and their origins), our notions of the afterlife and our life before this one, our beliefs on the nature of God and our relationship with Him (we differ somewhat from the Nicene Creed, and greatly from the Athanasian Creed), our temples and the work we do there for our dead, and our history (which is colorful and not without blemishes).

@superversive - no apology necessary, at least as far as this Mormon is concerned.

@xander25 - if you have questions, I'd be willing to answer from my perspective as a long-time member. I'm not sure how to do personal messages through LiveJournal, so if you want, I'm elzarcho AT gmail DOT com.

I agree with you that the historicity of the Testaments is confirmed by many contemporary sources. None of those sources confirm that Jesus Christ was who He said He was, however. The fact that the text is authentic has no bearing on whether or not it is true. Discovery of the walls of Jericho doesn't prove that they were miraculously knocked down.

I believe that Jesus is the Christ the same way Simon Peter did in Matthew 16:

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

I can't show you the walls of Zarahemla or any contemporary accounts of Book of Mormon figures or culture. There is limited evidence for a volcanic cataclysm around the time of Christ's death in Meso-America. There is the perplexing Quetzalcoatl (I hesitate even to bring that up, because if it's a corruption of the Christ figure, it's a very bad one). There are many civilizations that rose and fell in North and South America about which we know nothing. But there's no proof of the Book of Mormon in any of that. So your point is acknowledged.

My response, however, is that there are only two possibilities. Either Joseph Smith made the whole thing up, or he did not.

Specific examples? After the talk we had the other day, and from what they've said, it falls well within the line of most Protestant churches I've been to. On the other hand, I've heard things from Catholic mouths, that have nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever. Normally, I'm inclined towards charity, in regards to different Christian sects, but since you've thrown gauntlet here...sorry, but I must speak up.

"Mormonism, in so far as I understand it, would have us all as the begotten of the Father, and does not recognize the distinction between begetting and creating."

The rest of the claims I think deserve closer inspections...though this...I've always accepted (when I was Baptist or otherwise), that we are children of God...and as such, I have no problem with this.

Some saints have misunderstood this. The local Creator is the first and greatest; He is God, above all. While others are in body like Him, they are not God. I would be willing to go into further detail.

Now, as far as begetting and creating, Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten of the Father. LDS scripture is very clear about this. The rest of us are His children as spirits, organized (created) by God the Father.

We could discuss what Joseph Smith described as "intelligence", but I think it suffices to say that God is the greatest, the Creator of all.

nm