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All hats are grey in the dark

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May. 26th, 2006 | 17:10

Ten things I hate in a book, continued:

6. Characters who are sold as heroes, but act like spoilt adolescent sociopaths.
The first five items on my list were all matters of literary technique. Now I propose to change tack and take up some points of subject matter. And first, because [info]sartorias was good enough to remind me of it in the comboxes, I shall deal with a very common fault that is all but guaranteed to knock me right out of a book: the villainous hero.

Now, I have no trouble with flawed heroes; I expect them, and rejoice to see them overcome their flaws, or find ways to succeed in spite of them. I can even find much to admire in anti-heroes. And I have much patience with ironic protagonists, the Yossarians and Babbitts and Humbert Humberts, who are never represented as heroic in any way, and whose authors are well content to portray them as the schnooks, schnorrers, and schlemiels that they are. (How did we ever find words to express abuse before Yiddish came along?) What offends me violently is when a character is represented as a Good and Upright and Virtuous Hero, when almost his every act betrays him as a villain of the most heinous kind.

Consider the works of Mercedes Lackey and her horde of collaborators. Lackey writes straightforward, button-pushing wish-fulfilment fantasies aimed at the sort of adolescents who feel unbearably Special and Unique and Misunderstood, but in fact are no better or more sensitive than anyone else their age. She identified and saturated her target demographic of emo kids before emo had a name. Writing for such an audience, the temptation to lower the bar of heroism to the emo-kid level must be almost irresistible; at any rate, there seems to be precious little evidence that Ms. Lackey ever resisted it.

I have, as it happens, only read one book by Lackey, Magic’s Pawn. I am told that it is somewhat below her usual standard, but not unrepresentatively so. The so-called hero of this book is one Vanyel, a thoroughly spoilt teenage boy, a nobleman’s son who is supposed to grow up a warrior and learn to defend his family’s lands, but wants to be a musician instead. Instead of doing anything to make the best of a bad job, he constantly shirks every duty his father sets him, refuses even to learn one end of a sword from the other, and hides behind his mother’s skirts to escape punishment.

So far, we have a good candidate for the title of anti-hero. In the terms of the three classic plot patterns, Vanyel has the makings of ‘The Man Who Learned Better’ in extraordinary abundance. But he is something worse than that. He combines an exceptionally thin skin with a total insensitivity to the feelings of others — not an uncommon combination in real life, but certainly not a heroic one either. One of the first scenes in the book shows him casually seducing a fifteen-year-old serving wench — not even out of appetite, but just because he is a rich pretty boy and feels that it is expected of him — then casting her aside out of sheer boredom, without the slightest regard for her feelings. In fact, he is rather carefully represented as wilfully unaware that she even has such things as feelings. From that point onward I positively hated Vanyel, and wanted him to die slowly of a loathsome disease whilst being lowered an inch at a time into boiling oil. But I was destined to be disappointed.

Instead, he is miraculously sprung from the fate-worse-than-death of doing his hereditary duty, and sent away to study to be a Herald Mage. He discovers that he is actually homosexual, a thing he had somehow never heard of before, despite his precocity in the matter of sexual experience. Lackey as much as tells us that this excuses his abominable behaviour to the serving wench, and indeed all of his other faults. Apparently homosexuality is a positive virtue in Lackey’s world, for it causes its devotees to be unjustly persecuted, and we all know that anyone who has been unjustly persecuted is thereby immune to any criticism whatever. Or something like that.

So Vanyel immerses himself in Herald-Magery, despite having no discernible talent for the work, and a variety of tacky liaisons with men and other boys, playing roughly the part of a Coll. Tart at C.S. Lewis’s ‘Wyvern’. And at the end, in the most disgusting deus ex machina I have ever read, he is struck by magical lightning and instantly receives every magical talent in the world at maximum intensity, fully trained and ready for use, together with the wisdom to employ them properly and heroically. And so the scene is set for the remaining books of the trilogy.

I threw the book against the wall so hard that I broke the wall. It didn’t do the book much good, either, but at least the book was fortified by the hardness of Vanyel’s heart and the thickness of his skull. This so-called hero had spent three hundred pages being a self-centred ass with all the charm of an ingrown toenail, and seemed to have learnt absolutely nothing from the knocks he took and richly deserved. Now all my hopes were dashed, for I would never see him run over by a bus, lest his superhuman powers should damage the bus. But I think I have made the nature of my objections sufficiently clear.

Now to my principal corpus vile: the collected works of David Eddings, or, as he prefers to be called nowadays, David-and-Leigh. (I am irresistibly reminded of 1066 and All That, with its chapter ‘King Williamandmary. England ruled by an Orange.’) For the sake of chivalry and brevity, I shall ignore Mrs. Eddings’ complicity in writing their early books, and refer to Eddings in the singular and masculine.

Eddings really was a man of one book, though he has made a fat living for two decades now by issuing it again and again under different titles and with different names for the characters. Andrea Leistra summed up his M.O. in this wonderful Usenet screed, which I reproduce here with impenitent apologies to its author:

A David Eddings Series

Once upon a time there was an innocent farmboy (I realize what’s-his-name in The Elenium wasn’t literally a farmboy, but he acted like one). This farmboy thought he knew a lot. In encounters filled with heavy foreshadowing, he realized that he didn’t know much of anything. So he set off with a beautiful dark-haired sorceress who liked tea on a great quest for a magic blue rock. They acquire a vast supporting cast of cliches, who serve only to crack jokes (not needed to round out the plot or defeat baddies, since all the baddies die without hurting anyone anyway). Along the way they fought several battles with huge numbers of stupid baddies who they managed to defeat against vast odds. At long last, they find the shiny blue rock that is almost omnipotent. Farmboy uses the shiny blue rock a few times and realizes, oh no, he isn’t done yet. He has to go on another quest, this time to defeat Ultimate Evil with the shiny blue rock. So he sets off again with his supporting cast of cliches and off they go to face possible destruction of the world, laughing all the way. They soon find Ultimate Evil who they easily defeat without a scratch and go off so farmboy can marry a beautiful princess, still laughing.

Congratulations! Now you, too, can write an Eddings series! Just substitute names and stretch this easy-to follow formula out to about 1200 pages. Repeat formula until rich.

I wish I had written that.

Aside from the dreary repetitiveness of Eddings’ paint-by-numbers fantasies, their really striking feature is the almost total absence of moral depth or insight. Let us consider The Belgariad, since it defined the template, and remains perhaps the best known of his works. Garion, the ostensible hero, is an utter ingenue, who (without ever seeming to learn much) gradually takes on colour and personality from his older and worldlier companions. And what a lot they are!

We have Belgarath, the 7,000-year-old sorcerer, who was a petty thief as a boy and is one still, even though he could just as easily create things out of thin air as steal them. He is also a grave-robber, a murderer, and a superbly accomplished liar; but let us not flatter him unduly. Somewhere or other in the books, he says frankly that he prefers not to think in terms of Good and Evil, but merely of Us and Them. A franker admission of moral bankruptcy would be hard to find.

Polgara, his 3,000-year-old daughter, exhibits the maturity and self-control of a spoilt teenage drama queen. She delights to play the prim and proper lady, and apparently has never heard of sex, but she is a consummate cock-teaser and a master manipulator. She makes no effort to control her awesome temper, which she expresses in tantrums that wreck castles and cities, for which she never shows the least sign of remorse. That she should pay the damages, of course, is simply unthinkable. Her principal occupation is raising a line of small boys, the successive generations of her sister’s descendants, whom she ‘protects’ from their ancient and implacable enemies by keeping them carefully swaddled in ignorance, illiteracy, and incapacity. She regularly loses her temper with Garion whenever he shows a generous impulse to others, or demands a morsel of truth from her.

These protagonists attract about the kind of followers you would expect. There is Barak, the Viking berserker, who counts his enemies by severed heads and has apparently never heard of negotiation. Hettar, who has the trappings of a Rider of Rohan gone very wrong indeed, has dedicated his life to the psychotic mission of committing genocide single-handed. Mandorallen is a stock mock-feudal aristocrat, ripe for the Jacquerie, the kind who knows nothing and cares less about the misery of the peasants who support him. (Such aristocrats did indeed exist. They were never common, except in rare and peculiar cases where they formed a class of absentee landlords, like the French nobility once gathered at Versailles, or the francized Russians of St. Petersburg. That the bloodiest revolutions in European history came to those two particular nations is no accident.) Mandorallen is also, by way of a hobby, a lifelong adulterer. The Princess Ce’Nedra is the world’s most outrageously spoilt brat. She tries to enforce her will by gross emotional manipulation, and would be dangerous if she were any good at it. Relg is a bog-standard religious zealot, totally misconstruing the teachings of his God, with a pathological fear of human contact born of his exaggerated and Pharisaic notions of ritual purity. Silk, a.k.a. Prince Kheldar of Drasnia, is a thief, a spy, an assassin, a crooked merchant, a cheat at dice, and a wholesale purveyor of the finest gold-leaf filigree pathological lies. And so down the line.

Glenda Larke’s list makes mention of

5. A mass of truly horrible characters none of whom I can empathise with, doing truly horrible stuff, none of which I can sympathise with. You’ve gotta offer me something better than that to keep me reading.

and

8. Villains who have no purpose to their villainy except to be villainous. Why? What's the pay-off ?

The payoff, dear lady, is that the villains exist to make the other horrible characters look virtuous and sympathique by contrast. They are the kettle for the pot to call black. Nowhere is this clearer than in Eddings. His principal villains are the Grolims, an improbably murderous priesthood whose sole religious function, as far as anyone can tell, is to perform wholesale human sacrifices in the Aztec style, carving out the victim’s beating heart to burn it in a charcoal brazier. No matter what problem they are faced with, their inevitable solution is to make another sacrifice. This is intended to frighten their underlings into performing superhuman feats to propitiate the Grolims’ wrath. It never works.

The Grolims also write their sacred scriptures on vellum made from human skin. Belgarath roundly curses them for this, not because it is wicked and wrong to murder human beings for leather, but merely because human skin won’t hold ink. You would think that even a Grolim might have the intelligence to do his writing on a substance that would hold ink, that being the purpose of writing, but these are Eddings villains, whose malice is exceeded only by their stupidity.

Now, obviously a society infested with such rulers cannot possibly endure. (The secular kings of Angarak are little better, besides being as superfluous as boils to a leper.) Not even the Aztecs were stupid enough to sacrifice their own people, or to arrange their horrific rites in a way so bizarrely reminiscent of the old management joke, ‘The floggings will continue until morale improves.’ But Eddings would have us believe that Angarak has been organized on these lines for thousands of years, going back even before Belgarath’s time.

Of course there is only one reason for all this exaggerated awfulness. As long as Eddings’ ‘heroic’ band of robbers, cutthroats, and bunco-steerers don’t go performing human sacrifices and writing necromantic grimoires on dead bodies, they can excuse themselves for all the other evil that they do. And Eddings can pretend that he is writing about White Hats versus Black Hats, when in fact he is only dealing with two slightly different shades of soot.

This is an old game, but not as old as the ages. For instance, it was not until the Boer War that governments began to systematically use atrocity stories about their enemies to justify their own atrocities. The technique has since become a staple of wartime propaganda. Even the Nazis had vestiges of conscience, which they could assuage by picturing themselves as Roland at Roncesvalles, defending Christendom against a godless horde. As it happened, Stalin’s minions really were a godless horde, which made Dr. Goebbels’ job easier; but that did not make the Nazis heroes.

Do we really want to set up the thugs of the SS as our standard of heroism? Eddings does not precisely do that, but given the context of mock-mediaeval fantasy, he comes as close as makes no difference. It stinks of moral cowardice and atrophied conscience. C.S. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity:

When a man is getting better he understands more and more clearly the evil that is still left in him. When a man is getting worse he understands his own badness less and less. A moderately bad man knows he is not very good: a thoroughly bad man thinks he is all right. This is common sense, really. You understand sleep when you are awake, not while you are sleeping. You can see mistakes in arithmetic when your mind is working properly: while you are making them you cannot see them. You can understand the nature of drunkenness when you are sober, not when you are drunk. Good people know about both good and evil: bad people do not know about either.

Eddings assigns his white hats and black hats almost at random, and expects us to accept it as a shorthand for heroism and a substitute for ethics. Now, ethics may not be merely a matter of black and white, but if they are anything at all, they are a matter of lighter and darker; and the Eddings method is very dark indeed. He could have saved himself the trouble of buying two colours of hats, though. All hats, like all cats, are grey in the dark.

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Comments {31}

(no subject)

from: [info]dsgood
date: May. 27th, 2006 0:00 (UTC)
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"As long as Eddings’ ‘heroic’ band of robbers, cutthroats, and bunco-steerers don’t go performing human sacrifices and writing necromantic grimoires on dead bodies, they can excuse themselves for all the other evil that they do."

I stopped even browsing Eddings' books when I found one in which the prologue has some of the Good Guys killing and eating student protestors. (Sorry; I don't remember the title.)

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Tom Simon

(no subject)

from: [info]superversive
date: May. 27th, 2006 0:06 (UTC)
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All right, I think I’m going to throw up now.

It sounds like that was probably The Losers, an aptly-named ‘mainstream’ Eddings novel that I have never so much as intended to read. And it begins to seem that my intentions were wiser than I knew.

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(no subject)

from: [info]dsgood
date: May. 27th, 2006 0:12 (UTC)
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No, it was a fantasy novel.

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Tom Simon

(no subject)

from: [info]superversive
date: May. 27th, 2006 0:18 (UTC)
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OK. I didn’t know his fantasies had such things as student protesters.

(standing up)

I stand corrected.

(sitting down again)

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jordan179

(no subject)

from: [info]jordan179
date: Feb. 13th, 2008 9:29 (UTC)
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I stopped even browsing Eddings' books when I found one in which the prologue has some of the Good Guys killing and eating student protestors.

Well, you do have to admit that this would save money on school lunches. (Crypt-Keeper laugh)

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Laurel Amberdine

(no subject)

from: [info]amberdine
date: May. 27th, 2006 1:22 (UTC)
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This extended list of yours is great!

I was very much inspired (negatively) by Eddings. Now I make absolutely certain that every time one of my characters does something bad (or questionable), the consequences are clear, and the reader feels it.

I'm a sucker for cliche fantasy; I enjoyed The Belgariad just fine. But I was really bothered by how "the good guys" did all sorts of atrocious things and then laughed it off.

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Donald

(no subject)

from: [info]tharain
date: May. 27th, 2006 2:41 (UTC)
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I read all three of the Magic's P... books. They were fun, I suppose, but I wanted to slap Vanyel repeatedly. Re. Peat. Ed. Ly. I didn't know the term "Marty Stu" then, but I would certainly have applied it if I had.

I think what made me most nuts was that Lackey got how it is to be gay wrong. Not to mention all that weepy "Oh I only want my father to love me for who I am" happy Companion horse crap.

I enjoyed The Belgariad when first I read it back in the day; it was amusing, and didn't take itself seriously. I stalled on the second, never getting past the first book, as it was, well, kinda the same thing over and over and over... I borrowed some of the followups. I've avoided anything of Eddings' that lies outside that storyline.

I've actually fallen away from "high fantasy" in recent years; just can't suspend my disbelief enough. An LJ friend of mine and I are thinking of starting a fandom: NEA. No Elves Allowed.

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Tom Simon

(no subject)

from: [info]superversive
date: May. 27th, 2006 5:46 (UTC)
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There are reasons why I pointedly avoided applying the word ‘gay’ to Vanyel, and yours is definitely one of them.

Ah, the NEA movement. I’m doing some serious philosophical play with elves myself, trying to see how I can reconcile Tolkien’s idea of them as ‘unfallen’ humans, with the immortality and power that were said to be Adam’s squandered birthright, and the popular mediaeval notion of them as soulless tricksters. The result is quite interesting, to me at least, and has considerably influenced my own ideas of ethics, especially in the matter of the ‘secondary good’ that arises only in response to evil. My ‘elves’ (they don’t like the word, though it is applied to them by others), for instance, have no word for mercy in their language. ‘Forgive them, for they know not what they do’ is not a thing that can happen among them, except in the case of fairly small children.

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(no subject)

from: [info]dsgood
date: May. 27th, 2006 6:21 (UTC)
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There are umpteen different versions of elves/the Hidden Folk/the Gentry... in Northern European folklore. In some versions, they can't abide anything cross-shaped. In one Scandinavian version, they're Christians -- but they're unfallen, so they only need the Old Testament. (I don't think this is theologically sound.)

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Jo Walton

(no subject)

from: [info]papersky
date: May. 27th, 2006 12:36 (UTC)
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That sounds as if it would be really interesting if you can make it work.

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asakiyume

(no subject)

from: [info]asakiyume
date: May. 27th, 2006 18:52 (UTC)
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A story for young people that has a very persuasive picture of fair-folk/fairies etc. and shows the lack-of-heart aspect that's common in folklore representations of same is The Moorchild. Have you read that? (Don't be put off by bad cover art on paperback version.)

It's quite poignant to see people who can love, forgive, grow, and change dealing with beings who, while delightful in their way, simply don't.

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Donald

(no subject)

from: [info]tharain
date: May. 27th, 2006 20:30 (UTC)
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I pointedly avoided applying the word 'gay' to Vanyel

Noel Coward once snarkily commented on Mary Renault's stories about gay men, saying that het women shouldn't attempt it. While I disagree with him -- particularly about Renault's stories -- in Lacky's case I think he has a point. "Homosexual" is a better term to describe Vanyel, but even that falls short of the point. What I've found in talking with het people is that even the most sympathetic and supportive folk don't equate our sexuality with theirs, i.e. that it's a foundation of their psyche. In writing, this manifests as a homosexual orientation is...well, grafted onto a het psychology. Hets tend not to think of their sexuality much -- they don't have to do so. It's common; it's default for society. What I've found is that my sexuality colors every interpersonal relationship in my life, and my life view, and, I believe, this is true for all people. It's not just that I sit there with "I'M A BIG GAY BOY" tattooed on my forehead -- although that's certainly true -- but I'm far more aware than het folks, I believe, that I react to men and women differently, and that reaction is impacted by the fact that I love men and find them sexually attractive. At the university I worked at back east I used to do what I called "The Dog and Pony Show Lectures, or What It's Like To Be A Gay Man" for the psychology classes. I challenged the kids to really think about how their sexual orientation impacted their casual interactions with people, and many came up to me on campus afterward and commented on how they'd never realized that it (their orientation) was such a big part of their being.

Lackey, in my opinion, focused on the "Gay Is Bad" aspect of society's view, and had Vanyel, in particular, obsess on this point. There seemed to be little in the whole underlying feeling of being different, of realization of difference, of discovery, that was so much a part of my experience. I could be mistaken, as it's been years since I've read these books, but it didn't ring entirely true at that time.

That being said, I did have to commend her for actually putting him out there as a homosexual 'hero', and playing it to the hilt. And there were certain scenes, mostly with the Bard Stefan, which did ring true. Stefan was, again in my opinion, much closer to what it's really like.

Yes. The NEA movement. I think my objection to Elves in stories is that it's so easy to write them badly Toss in long flowing hair, pointed ears, an archaic turn of phrase, and immortality, and voila! Elves. Add a wizard, some barbarians, and a hottie with a sword who's a king but no one knows it, and you have a complete ripoff of Lord Of The Rings a fantasy novel. I remember reading -- or rather, starting to read -- a book which had an Elven princess as the heroine. It was so bad, such utter dreck, that I tossed it aside after two chapters and focused on science fiction and space opera, mostly by CJ Cherryh. I very rarely read High Fantasy anymore, as a result, the only exception being Barbara Hambly. Any fantasy I do read tends to be contemporary fantasy, like Holly Black's Tithe and Valiant, rather than medieval sword and sorcery books. It's also why I studiously avoided anything of the like in the one that I wrote. It's too easy to be cheap and blatantly derivative.

Interestingly, my first attempt at world creation was a terribly derivative world that borrowed from damn near everyone -- Tolkein, Eddings, and what's his name, the guy who wrote Apprentice Adept and all of those, mostly the latter. I still have the world, the storyline, the maps, everything, in my head and archives, and maybe someday I'll come back to it, but I'd be surprised. It's not my gig.

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Fabio Paolo Barbieri

(no subject)

from: [info]fpb
date: Jul. 1st, 2006 20:37 (UTC)
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Mary Renault wasn't het.

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cat_i_th_adage

(no subject)

from: [info]cat_i_th_adage
date: Sep. 8th, 2007 1:35 (UTC)
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Er, I realise that this comment is rather after the fact, but in The Silmarillion (his prequel) many of the Elves acted outrageously badly. By Lord of the Rings, they'd all had a few thousand years to think things over and acquire maturity. They weren't so much 'unfallen,' as 'tumbled badly and climbed back up,' and so unlikely to fall again.

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(no subject)

from: [info]beata_mishi
date: May. 27th, 2006 4:46 (UTC)
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Here via sartorias, and I just wanted to say YES, YES, YES. I loathed the morality in the Eddings books--the crowning atrocity (for me) being the bit near the end of the Belgariad where Belgarath seals up a bad guy for eternal living torment and then justifies it because the bad guy killed somebody. Right, and wouldn't eternal torment be classed as a "fate worse then death"? As in, it's worse to do this to somebody than to kill him?

*bangs head*

Turning "good vs. evil" into "us vs. them" pretty much sums up what I hate about 987,426 other books/movies.

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asakiyume

(no subject)

from: [info]asakiyume
date: May. 27th, 2006 18:58 (UTC)
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This is a brilliant essay. I read it with my older daughter, who appreciated your skewering of those tales. Then my older son came along and wanted to read it, so I've printed it out. It should be assigned reading for English classes, writing workshops, and ethics classes.

He combines an exceptionally thin skin with a total insensitivity to the feelings of others — not an uncommon combination in real life Sigh. SO true, alas.

The notion that one can exchange "good" and bad" for "us" and "them" unfortunately seems to characterize a lot of political thinking... sadly.

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asakiyume

(no subject)

from: [info]asakiyume
date: May. 27th, 2006 19:02 (UTC)
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...and now I'm going to go eat lunch... maybe I can rustle up a student protester or two.

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Donald

(no subject)

from: [info]tharain
date: May. 27th, 2006 19:49 (UTC)
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maybe I can rustle up a student protester or two

MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm Nummy. =D

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A large duck

(no subject)

from: [info]burger_eater
date: May. 31st, 2006 17:28 (UTC)
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"For instance, it was not until the Boer War that governments began to systematically use atrocity stories about their enemies to justify their own atrocities. The technique has since become a staple of wartime propaganda."

It predates the Boer War, surely. The Romans accused early Christians of being cannibals and holding secret orgies to justify the persecution perpetrated against them.

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Tom Simon

(no subject)

from: [info]superversive
date: May. 31st, 2006 18:38 (UTC)
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Ah, but except for a handful of rather mad emperors, it wasn’t the Roman government that spread the propaganda against Christians. The stories about cannibalism and orgies and so forth were urban legends — not merely the then equivalent of urban legends, but the genuine article, for both Christianity and Christophobia bred in the close confines of Roman cities. As with the witch panic in a later era, the authorities tended to react slowly and reluctantly — though they could be appallingly brutal once they decided to persecute as a matter of policy.

In any case, there is really no continuous tradition from, say, Nero or Decius to the propaganda engines of modern governments. Much was changed for the worse in the 19th century, when eminent philosophers began to abandon the idea of searching after truth and instead took up the manufacture of ideologies. —But that’s another rant.

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A large duck

(no subject)

from: [info]burger_eater
date: May. 31st, 2006 21:04 (UTC)
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It was my understanding (and I'm no scholar of Roman history) that Rome regularly portrayed the populations they conquered as cannibals and whatnot--in other words, regularly portrayed them as people in desperate need of civilizing.

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Tom Simon

(no subject)

from: [info]superversive
date: Jun. 2nd, 2006 2:24 (UTC)
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I’m not a scholar, but that’s very far from my understanding based on thirty years of off-and-on reading. Tacitus, for instance, portrayed the Germans as (though exasperatingly barbarous) paragons of several of the old Roman virtues which he considered that the Romans no longer possessed. The Greeks (and hellenized populations generally) were regarded as more civilized than the Romans, though given to vices that unfitted them to rule the orbis terrarum. Spaniards seem to have been considered a kind of interesting big game. In late Republican times, Spain was the place to go if you wanted to fight a good bloody battle and produce the necessary tally of 5,000 corpses to earn a triumph. A good many Romans of all political stripes spoke out against this kind of self-aggrandizing slaughter; it seemed to be widely accepted that it was the Roman generals, not the natives, that most needed civilizing.

The one major exception, and this may have coloured your thinking on the matter, was the Roman horror of human sacrifice. The rites of Moloch were used to inflame emotions and generate a casus belli for the Third Punic War, and the conquest of Britain was at least partly motivated by a desire to stamp out the breeding-grounds of Druidism. But the fact that the Romans did not routinely attribute this particular atrocity to all their enemies shows that they were reacting at least as much to facts as to propaganda.

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Fabio Paolo Barbieri

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from: [info]fpb
date: Jul. 1st, 2006 10:09 (UTC)
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Not to mention that Phoenician human sacrifice is mentioned in a wholly independent source, namely the Bible, in texts written at a time when the Romans were an unknown Western tribe. And as for Druidic human sacrifice, I am writing an essay about it just now. It underlies, among many other things, the narrative structure of the four branches of the Mabinogi, and there is abundant archaeological testimony for it from Bohemia to Ireland.

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jordan179

(no subject)

from: [info]jordan179
date: Nov. 10th, 2006 7:47 (UTC)
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The irony, of course, is that the Romans practiced human sacrifice regularly. Except they didn't call it "human sacrifice." They called it the Games.

I'm not, by the way, excusing the actions of the Carthaginians or Ancient Celts. Merely pointing out that the Romans had a big blind spot for the beams in their own eyes.

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Tom Simon

(no subject)

from: [info]superversive
date: Nov. 10th, 2006 8:18 (UTC)
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It’s rather inaccurate to describe the gladiatorial combats as human sacrifice. In their Etruscan origin they were indeed a religious rite, but as such were seldom carried to the extreme of killing a combatant: a gladiatorial bout was not à outrance, though of course it was a dangerous business and accidental deaths seem to have been fairly common.

By late Republican times, gladiatorial bouts were a highly stylized form of combat, with grand sweeping blows and parries designed for show rather than for function. They were then perhaps most nearly equivalent to our professional wrestling matches or kung-fu movies. A gladiator at that time was generally permitted to retire after about thirty matches, and the large number of ex-gladiators reported to have served as bodyguards and bouncers, or used by faction leaders to intimidate opposing voters in the Forum, bespeaks a high survival rate.

Only in the early Empire did the games finally coarsen into frank displays of gore, with the death of at least one combatant a routine occurrence. I believe the obscenity of delivering verdicts with the thumbs came in with the later Julio-Claudians. But by that time almost all pretence of religious ritual had been dropped. The gladiators of the Empire were sacrificed not to the gods but to the spectators. And in any case, by then both the Carthaginians and the Druids had been pretty thoroughly stamped out. The apparent hypocrisy of the Romans is largely an illusion produced by conflating the practices of different eras.

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Fabio Paolo Barbieri

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from: [info]fpb
date: Jul. 1st, 2006 10:06 (UTC)
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Sue whoever claimed to teach you history. This is the degraded version of a piece of nonsense that was popular in college halls in the seventies. Any reading of Tacitus would be enough to destroy it.

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Fabio Paolo Barbieri

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from: [info]fpb
date: Jul. 1st, 2006 10:01 (UTC)
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A more widely respected writer than Eddings is, as far as I am concerned, a still more accomplished practitioner of this kind of filth. I mean Michael Moorcock, who has managed to think up the perfect excuse for his murderous "heroes" (Elric destroys, not only his usurping cousin, but the whole civilization that had given him birth, and completes this wonderful deed by leading his own barbarian friends and allies into a trap to be destroyed by the remaining Melnibonean forces): namely, that the real conflict in the world is not between good and evil, but between chaos and order. Hitler could not have said it better. Because neither order nor chaos are moral, any deed is permitted in their service, and because there is no possible resolution of this false dichotomy, struggle and massacre must go on for ever. No bloody wonder that the author of the rape fantasy GLORIANA hated Lewis and Tolkien.

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Tom Simon

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from: [info]superversive
date: Jul. 1st, 2006 16:37 (UTC)
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Oh, an excellent point. I must have a go at Moorcock one of these days; his criticism is as mendacious as his fiction is meretricious, and yet apparently sane people still take him at his word.

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Fabio Paolo Barbieri

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from: [info]fpb
date: Jul. 1st, 2006 16:41 (UTC)
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They do indeed. I've had them defend him to my face in my own LJ columns.

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jordan179

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from: [info]jordan179
date: Nov. 10th, 2006 7:53 (UTC)
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I actually liked the Elric series, though I did not at all like Elric himself, who in my opinion acted like a big whiny baby and always seemed to find ways to make everyone BUT himself pay for his own immaturity and stupidity, until eventually he was the last man left standing on his own planet, whereupon there was nobody for the horrendous demon he'd summoned to kill but himself. The reason I liked it was because it was an interesting world, and I didn't appreciate Elric (or the author) destroying it. I always thought it was more than a little strange of Moorcock to do that, and assumed that he did it on purpose to turn the cliche of the world-savior on its head.

I read _Gloriana_ once, and couldn't read it again. It seemed to make absolutely no sense either as an alternate- Tudor England or even, really, in its own terms. Its _society_ made no sense, and I always assumed it was some sort of elaborate in-joke on Moorcock's part.

I didn't know that Moorcock hated Lewis and Tolkien, though. That would explain a lot, however.

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princesselwen

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from: [info]princesselwen
date: Mar. 22nd, 2011 1:51 (UTC)
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This post put me in mind of Paolini's Eragon, who is constantly held up in-story as a wonderful and awesome hero. However, his actions say quite otherwise. Among his notable acts are: whining all the time, continuing to pursue a woman who has no interest in him (not to mention ogling her when she is poisoned and possibly dying), using his magic to force a blind and tortured man never to see his only child again (while denying him a fair trial for the crimes he allegedly committed), strangling a teenage soldier who was begging him for mercy, and contemplating genocide against a bunch of dwarves who disagree with him politically. None of the other characters are much better. Roran, Eragon's cousin, sees violence as the solution to every problem, sleeps with his girlfriend before marriage, and has no qualms about killing 193 people--and then laughing about it. The elves are all arrogant and obnoxious. And the villain--well, we haven't seen him at all. He's just kind of like cardboard.

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